Jaw meets floor.

[nenena]

Oh my. It's been a good several years since the last time that I've had the comments section of a post devolve into such a stunning example of case in fucking point.

Edited to add: Okay, look. I am hardly the only person who has publicly called out proglution and the others in that thread on bleachness for their BS. Many, many people on fandom_wank are making the same points. kuromitsu in particular is someone whose opinion ought to carry some weight, being a damn good translator of Japanese.

Protip: It is never a good idea to start a wank about translation by insulting a professional translator, and it makes you look like even more of an ass when you then go on to twist around and bullshit about what was actually said. When enough people with enough accumulated knowledge among them are continually pointing out that you are wrong, then it is time to step back and consider the possibility that maybe you might be wrong.

proglution and suzukaze are right to argue in my previous post that pobody's nerfect. The same applies to them as well. I have had people more knowledgeable than me point out my translation errors before. And I've corrected them right away. It does nobody any favors to write ten pages worth of comments defending your shitty translation and continuing to insist that the professional interpreter in question was "misleading" when she wasn't.

This, then. This is pretty much the perfect example of the type of posturing behavior that I was trying to call out in my first post.

ETA again: Meni just pointed out one of the bigger, ickier issues that got buried by the translation wank, and I tried to articulate a coherent response on the matter. But this is another one of the things that I wanted to discuss in my first post (before it got so spectacularly derailed): the difference between showing cultural knowledge vs. expressing stereotypes. There's definitely a Pretendian/Wapanese inclination to attempt to speak for people from other cultures, rather than letting them speak for themselves. And that is exactly what happened in Moritagate, when the shippers relied on oversimplified, essentializing cultural stereotypes to deny the possibility that Morita might actually mean what he straight-up said. Talk about twisting cultural knowledge to fit a personal agenda.

Comments

[the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com]

Holy wall of text Batman! Those two just keep digging themselves deeper and deeper!

And I had to giggle when you said that proglution seemed "pretty fucking smart." Methinks you're being far too generous to her.

[nenena.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in light of the way that the whole "yappari" thing is developing, I'm inclined to want to take it back.

Since their argument seems to be that Morita was just trying to go along with the crowd, you'd think that pointing out how "yappari" can function as a statement of agreement would support their case, rather than undermine it. Yet they still both devote pages and pages of comments to defending proglution's statement that "yappari" doesn't mean agreement. It's just boggling. Absolutely boggling.

NGL, though, I do appreciate the sources they've been linking me to. That thesis in particular was kickass awesome. It doesn't actually support either of their wankery positions, but it did make for some excellent reading.

[the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com]

Yet they still both devote pages and pages of comments to defending [info]proglution's statement that "yappari" doesn't mean agreement.

Yeah, when you've sunk to the level of essentially saying that "blue" actually means "orange," and you're doing it to justify shipping preferences, then you qualify as neither smart nor sane.

I also enjoyed the bit where proglution claimed that jaseroque's translation was tainted with shipping bias, because from what I can tell jaseroque doesn't even read Bleach! She doesn't even know who these characters are! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

So what does "yappari" actually mean? (Since I know about five words of Japanese and none of them are that one.)

[nenena.livejournal.com]

It indicates definitiveness, expectation, agreement, and/or combinations of all of the above.

WWWJDIC (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C) says: "also; as I thought; still; in spite of [something else]; absolutely; of course."

SpaceALC online dictionary says (http://eow.alc.co.jp/%A4%E4%A4%C3%A4%D1%A4%EA/EUC-JP/): "all in all, as suspected, as was expected, after all."

I also enjoyed the bit where proglution claimed that [info]jaseroque's translation was tainted with shipping bias, because from what I can tell jaseroque doesn't even read Bleach! She doesn't even know who these characters are! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

To be fair, proglution never accused jaseroque of shipping bias. She did say that jaseroque's translations were misleading and would cause confusion. Which is bullshit, of course. But if we're going to accuse someone of bullshit then we need to stick with what they actually said.

She accused the panel interpreter of shipping bias, though, which is far more offensive and stupid in my book.

Reposted for typing faaaail

[the-sun-is-up.livejournal.com]

Ah okay, I mixed up the translators.

jaseroque's translation did cause confusion, but only because the shippers are idiots whose fervent devotion to wishful thinking impedes their ability to read.